[wyrm]

Link!

A month ago, Oliver Hoffman posted this to the German Feder&Schwert Forum (in German, of course)

Hmmm ... vor etwa einem Jahr habe ich doch erklärt, wie das laufen wird.
Ihr habt alle ein kurzes Gedächtnis oder lest keine Posts, die länger als drei Worte sind ...
Also: Es wird jedes Jahr wechselnd eine vierte Linie geben, die mit 6 Bänden versorgt und dann wieder (vorübergehend) eingestellt ist. Das können alte Sachen sein (Changeling ist ein heißes Gerücht), aber auch neue. Das läuft dann so im Jahresturnus neben den großen 3 her.
Und: In 6 Tagen ist GenCon. Danach weiß zumindest ich mehr.


The guy who posted this is Oliver Hoffman, one of the people at Feder&Schwert, which is a German company that translates and distributes White Wolf material in Germany. I assume that he knows very well what he's talking about.
Ok, I'll try to translate as accurately as possible.

Ok. There will be a new "fourth line" every year. Each one of those lines will feature six books, and after those six books are out, the line will temporarily be cancelled in favor of the next "fourth line". Those lines could be both stuff we already know - specifically, Changeling is rumored to make its reappearance - and new stuff. These smaller lines will preexist with the three big lines.

In 6 days I'll be at Gencon. Then at least I'll know more.

Now, I have no idea whether this is up-to-date information or not, but it gives one to think about.
In my perspective, the problem with many of the WoD lines (Changeling, Hunter, Demon etc.) was that they didn't sell as well as Vampire, Werewolf&Mage. I think that this problem could be dealt with somewhat by developing lines that are limited in the amount of books they have.

[Libra]

So they could release a whole bunch of miniseries along the lines of Orpheus. I like that.

[TSHamby]

Most interesting...

[BlackHat_Matt]

That was actually discussed as a plan before ToJ ever happened. Orpheus worked out well, so it makes sense that they'd go this route.

[TSHamby]

Very nice...very nice, indeed!

[Wyrmshadow]

I like it from the standpoint that it furthers the toolbox agenda. Here's Demon for the nWoD. Don't like it? Shortly we'll give you Changeling for the nWoD. Not stressing any one "fourth corner" to the nWoD is an interesting approach.

Plus it lets them read and react to the fanbase. Once some of the dust settles they can revisit games and concepts that picked up better than others, while still meeting whatever promises they offered in a particular game.

Hm, I have un-name-able reservations, but all-in-all this could be a great strategy.

[Genevieve LeClaire]

Interesting in concept. It allows one to pick and choose what denizens one would want in the world. It may work well.

With as "crossover compatible" as they are attempting to keep the NWoD, do any of you find that this may cause a similar glutting problem with creatures as it did before?

It was not just the books, originally, it was also the denizens that seemed to almost overpopoulate the WoD for some players, so I was just curious. Maybe it should be another thread...

[TSHamby]

I always had a take it or leave it approach to the oWoD, only rarely used changeling, never used wraiths, hunters or demons. I see no reason to not do the same with NWoD.

[Wyrmshadow]

I think necessarily the 4th games wouldn't be as populous, and hence more insinuated a la Hunter, Changeling, and Demon. Why they don't show up until the fourth game, how they might remain hidden or unnoticed, or why the primary three aren't as aware of them.

You could pick and choose more readily. Perhaps your nWoD will feature 5 variants of critter, whereas someone elses could feature 4, 7 or only the 3 (or, shit, only 2 or 1). Kind-of treating the 4th game slot as the Bloodlines, Lodges, and Legacies. They'll be accessible and easy to tack-on, but also easy to ignore without disrupting any plans you might have had.

The problem could be once they release two or three of these "4th Games" do you start explaining how Demons would react to Changelings, etc. (which I think is how it can start to feel crowded)? Or do you truly treat each game as if it's the 4th, and let the players sort-it out as is their wont?

I think the latter is their likelier opening volley, and again, they can read and react if there's enough demand.

I'm warming to this as we speak.

[wyrm]

I think necessarily the 4th games wouldn't be as populous, and hence more insinuated a la Hunter, Changeling, and Demon.  Why they don't show up until the fourth game, how they might remain hidden or unnoticed, or why the primary three aren't as aware of them.

The problem could be once they release two or three of these "4th Games" do you start explaining how Demons would react to Changelings, etc. (which I think is how it can start to feel crowded)?  Or do you truly treat each game as if it's the 4th, and let the players sort-it out as is their wont?

I think that all those "fourth games" will be highly optional in nature, and thus, we might not see crossover material or stuff that explains how critter type 1 reacts to critter type 2.

I'm warming to this as we speak.

I think that, business-wise, it might very well be a smart move on White Wolf's part.

[BlackHat_Matt]

 

With as "crossover compatible" as they are attempting to keep the NWoD, do any of you find that this may cause a similar glutting problem with creatures as it did before?

No, because, in theory, the books for other lines won't feel compelled to take all of the critters into consideration.

Let's say, for instance, that the 2006 game is Cowboy: The Moseying. Books for Cowboy might mention vampires, werewolves and mages in the same way that books for Vampire mention werewolves and mages - those three games are the "core" of the World of Darkness, and the existence of those creatures is assumed. In 2007, however, we see the release of Pirate: The Arrrghing. Pirate books don't mention Cowboys, though they do mention vampires, werewolves, and mages.

Now, will people still complain about "glutting," as though they are forced to use every creature type, even though a reading of the books doesn't support that view? Sure. People like to complain.

[wyrm]

No, because, in theory, the books for other lines won't feel compelled to take all of the critters into consideration.

Let's say, for instance, that the 2006 game is Cowboy: The Moseying. Books for Cowboy might mention vampires, werewolves and mages in the same way that books for Vampire mention werewolves and mages - those three games are the "core" of the World of Darkness, and the existence of those creatures is assumed. In 2007, however, we see the release of Pirate: The Arrrghing. Pirate books don't mention Cowboys, though they do mention vampires, werewolves, and mages.

Now, will people still complain about "glutting," as though they are forced to use every creature type, even though a reading of the books doesn't support that view? Sure. People like to complain.

Yeah, that's pretty much what I meant with the optionality of those "lesser" game lines.

[TSHamby]

Exactly! All the lesser lines will make some reference to the "Big 3", but will not reference each other in anyway. At least, this is the approach as I understand it and the way I would do it.

[Genevieve LeClaire]

In 2007, however, we see the release of Pirate: The Arrrghing. Pirate books don't mention Cowboys, though they do mention vampires, werewolves, and mages.

I wanna Play Pirate: The Arrrghing! BHM, will you write this one? For me? Please!!!!

But I fully agree. It was just something that popped into my head, so I thought the question should be asked.

I personally, really like the idea. I think it will be a great way to mix and match (like my outfits) for my games.

[Swordsman]

Matt...love those examples!

Very interesting marketing strategy. As has been pointed out, I can see the up side to this from WW's standpoint. I kind of like the idea of deciding to have a given game line, and then putting your full force behind all marketing and developing ideas, which wouldn't be the case with this. But at the same time, WW can use this as an experiment to see what will sell. After all, as we're all too aware, a game line will be nixed if it doesn't make a profit. And they can take a successful run and parlay it into something bigger. That's how Vampire: The Dark Ages turned into an entire line of Dark Ages books.

So I'm intrigued by the concept, but I'll have to see how it plays out. I also worry that they'll run out of ideas with this or perhaps over-fill the world with supernatural types (but I understand what you're saying, Matt).

Hey, if this is the only way we'll get another stab at a fae game, I'm all for it.

[TSHamby]

Nice...they could do Angel: the Celestial, Crusade: the Reclaimation, Demon: the Infernal, Psion: the Gifted, Viking: the Unconquered, or, my personal favorite, Salesman: the Pushing.

[agasha kumiko]

I definitely like this if this is the way they go both from a marketing strategy and my bank account. Because like it or not if they just tie it to the main 3 then I know that I wouldn't feel pressure to buy a game that I am not interested in for the sake of completeness in the main gameworld. Anyway this stuff has already been said so I will just say this intrigues me.

Once again Wyrm shows why he is the "Saint of Wasted Bandwidth".

[TSHamby]

Saint of Wasted Bandwidth...he needs a sig...heehee!

[wyrm]

Once again Wyrm shows why he is the  "Saint of Wasted Bandwidth".

Thanks

Saint of Wasted Bandwidth...he needs a sig...heehee! tongue2.gif

I tend to be a bit lazy with all that account stuff like sigs, links etc. But I'll see what I can do.

[zenten]

I like this idea, as long as the books don't follow the same format as Orpheus. Basicly, I don't want a metaplot for a gameline (and setting books bore me, as do adventure books), even if the plot only lasts for a year.