[Morlandus]

So, do you hate a clan so much that you would see them erased from the WoD? Have you already done so? Tell us about it!

[Alucard]

Gio must Die !!
*Has a feeling of deja-vu*

[Atrox]

Never seen the point of the official version of the Baali, myself, which is why I erased them and replaced them with something I liked better.

[Morlandus]

What did you replace them with? I would be interested as I didn't really like the version of the Baali that are given to us to begin with.

[Stoic True Brujah]

Tremere, Tremere, Tremere!

Gio(phu**ing)vanni come second.





"'Chum: ' Remember - Tremere are friends, not food, mate!
'Bruce: (Chasing Tremere) 'FOOOD!"

[Paladin92]

I always hated the Tremer. Everyone I have seen play them made them twinkies. damn tremer and their witchcraft ways....

[Varros Dominus]

Giovanni even wolf thinks the founder should die and so do I out with the hole clan and in with there older brothers!!!!

ASHUR ROCKS

[tebrinus_fiend]

EBOLISH all tremere!!

no thats out of my system i have a vozd to prepare....

[Sahajiya]

Yeah, I threw in my vote for the Tremere as well. I don't have a problem with vampire mages per se, nor the crossover potential that arises with that clan and the Order of Hermes from Mage. (In fact, I ran a fine game using the Blood Treachery book for Mage, thick with Vampire/Mage crossover.)

The problem with the clan arises when thaumaturgic paths which should duplicate mortal magic instead turn to copying existing disciplines. Obtenebration already exists - you don't need the Path of Shadowmancy, or whatever it's called, and that's just one example. Also, their rituals are insanely powerful and open to much abuse by players who want to play D&D with fangs. "Cool, I can play magic-using vampires with kewl powerz? Sign me up!"

This is why I ban them from play in my games. That way, their proper treatment is firmly in my hands as an NPC only clan.

[Vayu]

TOREADOR. I have all ways hated them.

[Ominous Presence]

I would choose to remove the Gargoyles. They seemed more suitable for Mage than V:tM. Even then, only as NPC's.

[Blank Frank]

Kiyasid.

Maybe it was just that the kid playing the kiyasid was annoying, but he just twinked out the character as well and proceeded to act ooc (or at least role play mechanically rather than organically) most of the time in order to show off his twinky uberness.

I'd replace them with requiems Mekhet, they'd be a far better fit for occult loremasters. Failing that modify them enough that their twink factor is limited and coolness is maximized. They're a great concept with not so good implementation.

[Dyado Vesco]

Clans and not Bloodlines right? I'd say Followers of Set. At most they should be a Bloodline. In fact what should be played up is that they are corruptors, akin to the serpent who tempted Adam and Eve and tie in all the serpent/snake stories around the world to the idea without it resorting to Set. Set brings it down to seem like a specific cultural thing, and while Revised changes that they always do it in the vein of saying that they all came from Set but were mistaken over time to believe they were seperate. It should have gotten away from the whole Egyptian thing and became more worldly. Sort of like the Cult of Ecstacy only a negative, more primal and savage ideal. As they are they seem pretty useless and culturally biased.

[divine virus]

Yeah, I threw in my vote for the Tremere as well. I don't have a problem with vampire mages per se, nor the crossover potential that arises with that clan and the Order of Hermes from Mage. (In fact, I ran a fine game using the Blood Treachery book for Mage, thick with Vampire/Mage crossover.)

The problem with the clan arises when thaumaturgic paths which should duplicate mortal magic instead turn to copying existing disciplines. Obtenebration already exists - you don't need the Path of Shadowmancy, or whatever it's called, and that's just one example. Also, their rituals are insanely powerful and open to much abuse by players who want to play D&D with fangs. "Cool, I can play magic-using vampires with kewl powerz? Sign me up!"

This is why I ban them from play in my games. That way, their proper treatment is firmly in my hands as an NPC only clan.

Blood Treachery is horible, teh Order shoudl have been able to nearly wipe out the vamps. When you can teleport sunlight....

[agasha kumiko]

Tremere enough said

[corvus_corax]

Malkavians
Hands down, the worst concept
And not because of Fishmalks either.

Wanna play a deranged vampire? Fine. Then play a vampire with a derangement.
Wanna play a 'prophet of god'? Fine. Then play a vampire with halllucinations and delusions of grandeur (a vampire with two derangements)
Wanna play a vampire with an 'alternate view of reality'? Fine. Then play a vampire with a derangement.

All in all, the only thing that seperated Malks from Deranged Vamps was the 'permanent derangement' weakness. And, when one looks into mental illness, a permanent derangement is easy to justify, even for a Brujah.

What a waste of time, concept and space.


BTW, why all the Tremere hatred? Not counting how they were played, their discipline or any other peripheral concepts, why are the Tremere in and of themselves hated so much?

[Izhim-ur-Baal]

I have to agree with Corvus_Corax: I would get rid of the Malkavians as a Clan, not of the archtype they represent.

A Clan has to have a broader feeling than the one the Malkavians have.

As a little Bloodline, they would rock even more than as a Clan.

I love Malkvians in Rev Ed, but has a Clan they loose impact in the game, and fishmalks become inevitable at some points.

Anatole rocks, imho; always imho, Louhi sucks.

Also, as Corvus_Corax, I can't understand the Tremere hate.

[Manakel]

I would go with the Tremere.

The Thaumaturgical Paths are just too twinkish, and the fact that even a 13th Gen can have 5 different paths with lots of powers and rituals and stuff is just too unbalanced. With Movement of the Mind 3 or 4 you can fly (or make an enemy fly out of the window in a skyscraper penthouse, not everybody has Fortitude 10), for Christ sake! A creative player with a Tremere can be almost a demigod IMHO, and that sucks (and not in a good way).

The Tremere should have been hunted and wiped out by every other Kindred since they were "created", not being able to prosper and get a place in the Kindred society.

I'm not very fond of the Giovanni either, but at least the clan founder was a vampire for a start...

Cappadocians rock!

[Jagash]

The Setties. To quote an old Conan movie, "Always a snake cult.."

They don't fit the themes in my opinion. When you have a judeo-christian game, why in they abyss do you introduce an egyptian god? Tremere are twinkish at times and they should have died out in first Masassa war but atleast they are more in theme. Movement of the Mind is a consistant vampire power; Serpentis _isn't_.

[ezogoul]

I have finally found others that feel the same way about the malkavian clan.

Without their derangment, the malks have nothing to justify their character concepts, discipline, or their backstory.

The entire clans is based upon the fact that they are crazy, and have little else going for them. I agree with Corvus, you want to play a nutjob? Then play a nutjob, but it doesn't have to be a Malk.

Kill them off, lock up the guy/girl who created them, and burn the pages that they were written on.