[jadedeath]

The Politics game...

One of the things that I ran into rather frequently {that was re-enforced by a couple dumbass ST's} was the fact that some players just don't know how to play politics...

I'm speaking from a Vamp perspective as I'm not sure how much political manuvering you can pull off in a Werewolf or Mage game...

Players need to realize that politics is a game of give-and-take... you need to look at the situation objectively and see what is good about it for you and more importantly because your character is a selfish-bastard what more you can take out of it...

I've seen it played masterfully in which a group of would-be conspirators got together and contacted a third party who would have been able to physically defeat the Prince and the conspirators were trying to set it all up to make it look like they weren't a part of it at all... but what they didn't realize is the character they got to physically take out the Prince decided that he didn't want to be the Prince... he looked at the situation and decided to go to the Prince himself and ask "what can you do for me... they want ME to take you out"

Since the Prince did not have a Seneshal at the time {he found the position kinda useless} he made a deal with the physical character to make him Seneshal and give him a little extra domain and responsibility in exchange for turning in the would-be conspirators... and it worked perfectly...

You need to examine each situation as it comes to you... if you decide to fight against the Prince you really need to figure out why... if your character was comfortable with their position and title and domain etc. before why would they fight against the Prince and risk jeapordizing that in favor of taking the Princeship and quite possibly having someone else come up and do it to them later...? Why not flip things around and say "well if I HELP the Prince... he might reward me for my loyalty" and any good Prince would probably do so for helping him stay in power...

Check out who you're plotting against and if they have enough power to fight off what you're sending against them... if they do... reconsider... I've seen that happen way too many times where a group of starting players would try to "take on the establishment" and got smacked down HARD... which would about half the time result in me being annoyed as a ST because those who got smacked would come to me claiming it was unfair... to which I would shrug and insist that I don't make the rules I just enforce them... anywho...

If your character is the deciding factor in weither or not a coup will happen sit back and enjoy the ride... play both ends against the middle it's risky for sure but sometimes it can pay out for you in ways that even you can't imagine for your character... on the flip side both sides of the dispute could turn on you... like I said... it's risky...

If the situation is that the conquerors will succeed weither or not you side with them... the situation is pretty obvious... unless you're psychotically loyal to the side about to fall you switch teams... and hope that the new rulers don't notice that you were someone who switched teams when the time comes around again that they will be on the recieving end of someone plotting against them...

In the end... play smart and examine the situation so that you can reveal what would be the best for your character... because most vampires are selfish bastards and if you don't look out for number 1... noone else will...

Logan

[Dolston]

Work on a group of pieces that fit into a category I call "Why you are no good at this game!" The idea is that they will help people get more out of the game I am writing. The first one is on prestation.

[zenten]

I find generaly having demons rising out of several pits to hell and having the PCs run around the city investigating is something that hurts politics myself.

[jadedeath]

I find generaly having demons rising out of several pits to hell and having the PCs run around the city investigating is something that hurts politics myself.

occasionally it helps politics... all depends on how good your players are...

Logan

[zenten]

No, such an example really is a way to screw up a game, regardless of the players.

[jadedeath]

No, such an example really is a way to screw up a game, regardless of the players.

only if you don't know how to play ANY character...

think of it like this... one of the characters could have created the "demons" with various uses of disciplines {Presence, Dominate and Animalism come to mind} as a distraction to get the others out and about to deal with the problem...

could be a Malkavian prank {which would probably get him killed} could be an elaborate attempt to take over the Princeship by having the Princes guards preoccupied with other matters... could be both...

I'm curious as to where this particular example came from?

Logan

[leninrocks]

I find that most individuals just don't like to play the game of politics.
Mainly because they want to see results instantly, thus combat and what not.
However, the people that do play that game usually are great at it and it makes the game much better in the long run.
The whole demon thing, well sure it can hurt the game in general, but some players will enjoy attempting to kill it.

[Glacialis]

Monster of the month: Check.
Next up: Gargoyles Gone Wild!

[OffWhite Knight]

Personally, I find that too many people don't like to play politics because of possible RL side affects. Or that prior politics from prior games get in the way.

For example, because of years of an adversarial relationship between a person in my coterie/covenant and a group of other people, the other folks in my coterie/covenant don't really get treated fairly by that other group. Conversely, I'm not sure my friend cuts those peoole a square deal.

Personally, I know it's a game. So if I get screwed in game, and I know it's part of the game, well, it pisses me off but I still know it's a game. I know I'm pissed because I feel like there was maybe something I could have done in game to counter the ploy that screwed me.

But that's my personal experience.

[jadedeath]

Personally, I find that too many people don't like to play politics because of possible RL side affects.  Or that prior politics from prior games get in the way.

definately a valid consideration...

For example, because of years of an adversarial relationship between a person in my coterie/covenant and a group of other people, the other folks in my coterie/covenant don't really get treated fairly by that other group.  Conversely, I'm not sure my friend cuts those peoole a square deal.

the only experience I have that somewhat goes along there is a married couple that we had in the one LARP up here... she always played a Toreador {and was praised for playing a Toreador but couldn't for the life of her {by her own admission} play anything else} and her husband who always ended up on the same side of whatever battle/dispute was happening... bloody annoying for me as a ST... I can understand that one or two of their characters would want to come in together and be linked... that's ok and kinda fun... but more than that gets annoying as a ST... if they come in separately not instinctively have their characters drift towards one another and support each other wholeheartedly...

Personally, I know it's a game.  So if I get screwed in game, and I know it's part of the game, well, it pisses me off but I still know it's a game.  I know I'm pissed because I feel like there was maybe something I could have done in game to counter the ploy that screwed me. 

But that's my personal experience.

no worries... I'm the same way... sometimes it's rather frustrating to have your character give another character an airtight deal that would give them more power than they have now {and maybe a position and some boonage} and have them turn it down and turn your character into the Prince...

Logan

[Tuesday]

one of the characters could have created the "demons" with various uses of disciplines {Presence, Dominate and Animalism come to mind} as a distraction to get the others out and about to deal with the problem...

Except for two things.

#1: That's not believable, in the slightest. It's flatly dumb. Unless those "demons" are actually eating people or getting *reliable* sightings, they're easily casually dismissed.

#2: It wasn't. The pits of hell opened up and demons came out.

could be a Malkavian prank {which would probably get him killed}

Assuming that there is some conceivable way to fake "demons rising from the pits of hell", a REASON to fake "demons rising from the pits of hell", AND you've got Malkavians players who are complete morons and hence think "pranking", called as such, is a worthwhile activity.

Besides, the people who "prank" are usually the ones who cry when worthwhile characters lose patience with them and pull *real* "Malkavian pranks" - the kind that force you to alter your behaviour and rethink your methods.

I'm curious as to where this particular example came from?

A game where the pits of hell opened up and demons came charging out.

In a LARP.

[jadedeath]

A game where the pits of hell opened up and demons came charging out. 

In a LARP.

wow... your grasp of the english language is awe inspiring...

I mean what game was it? who was running it? {was it the Redhawk evil ST of stupidity? or someone else just as lame?}

As for the demons coming out of the pits of hell... well... that's just dumbass STing... I've seen certain things like that handled masterfully by players... from getting up as a majority of the players to just simply ignoring the ST when they make such crackheaded plots... the only time it wouldn't be a strange plot would be a Gehenna chronicle...

but if I could pull you away from the flights of strangeness for a moment and back on topic... that being about getting players new and old to play the potlitics game...

Logan

This post has been edited by jadedeath: 11 April 2006 - 04:49 AM

[JadeMage]

Personally, I find that too many people don't like to play politics because of possible RL side affects.  Or that prior politics from prior games get in the way.

For example, because of years of an adversarial relationship between a person in my coterie/covenant and a group of other people, the other folks in my coterie/covenant don't really get treated fairly by that other group.  Conversely, I'm not sure my friend cuts those peoole a square deal.

Personally, I know it's a game.  So if I get screwed in game, and I know it's part of the game, well, it pisses me off but I still know it's a game.  I know I'm pissed because I feel like there was maybe something I could have done in game to counter the ploy that screwed me. 

But that's my personal experience.

Personally, I'd rather play politics than combat. If I didn't, I'd be playing D & D.

Sure, playing politics can get you killed. In one game, I had my character manipulated into becoming Clan Primogen, and was threatened. I gave the position to someone else, and wound up taking it back, only to get the character killed for it.

Playing another character, I managed to gain the position of Primogen because I was the only PC of that Clan (and the PC didn't want it). I also helped facilitate a Ventrue's rise to power (she provided the limo, and spoke for her own Clan when the matter the new Prince was discussed). Amazingly, the plan to overthrow the Prince succeeded.

But there have been times when losing the character pissed me off, because I thought there could have been a way to avoid what happened. (In the end, it sometimes comes down to throwing rock when you should have thrown scissors....)

[jadedeath]

Personally, I'd rather play politics than combat.  If I didn't, I'd be playing D & D. 

Sure, playing politics can get you killed.  In one game, I had my character manipulated into becoming Clan Primogen, and was threatened.  I gave the position to someone else, and wound up taking it back, only to get the character killed for it. 

I definately agree here... playing politics can get you killed sometimes even faster than being a combat munchkin...

Playing another character, I managed to gain the position of Primogen because I was the only PC of that Clan (and the PC didn't want it).  I also helped facilitate a Ventrue's rise to power (she provided the limo, and spoke for her own Clan when the matter the new Prince was discussed).  Amazingly, the plan to overthrow the Prince succeeded. 

But there have been times when losing the character pissed me off, because I thought there could have been a way to avoid what happened.  (In the end, it sometimes comes down to throwing rock when you should have thrown scissors....)

sometimes that's all it take... a rock instead of paper... this is why I like the new system alot better than the old... there's more of a chance to succeed and fail...

Logan

[zenten]

I mean what game was it? who was running it? {was it the Redhawk evil ST of stupidity? or someone else just as lame?}

This was Theater V.

[jadedeath]

This was Theater V.

must have been well after I left as a ST...

yeesh...

Logan

[Dolston]

I believe it was.

[jadedeath]

I believe it was.

I' ll leave that one be as a "I had no control over it since I wasn't ST at the time" shite... *LOL*

who was the ST then? just Howie?

Logan

[Dolston]

I think so. It was when I was playing Santiago and when the revolving door Prince happened. When you were STing I was playing a Tremere and there was a stable Prince.

[jadedeath]

I think so. It was when I was playing Santiago and when the revolving door Prince happened. When you were STing I was playing a Tremere and there was a stable Prince.

Revolving door Prince? I seem to have missed that particular story... do fill me in... *LOL*

Anywho... anyone else have any ideas on how you can get players old or new to play the politics game?

Logan