[OffWhite Knight]

Curious about something, so I'd like some thoughts...

The Requiem game I was talking about a while back is in full swing, has been for a few months now. The game was set up with the Invictus in control, with the Lancea Sanctum as their primary support. Mainly set up via background and NPCs.

But the largest player group is clearly the Ordo Dracul.

Now, my Lancea Sanctum priest is the Lancea Sanctum primogen. The primogen council has a single representative from each covenant and clan. And my friends and I, in the Invitus and Lancea Sanctum, engineered to have five of us on the council. Each council meeting so far, there's been at least one person missing...from one of the other covenants/clans. So if things ever got to a vote, we'd control things and get our way.

But they haven't gotten that far; by sheer force of will I've managed to railroad Invictus candidates for court positions, screwing the Ordo Dracul twice now. They are pissed (at least in-game and I think a bit out of game) and well, I'm the main target for their anger. But it's honestly just covenant politics just like it's presented in the books and novels. In fact, one player apparently complained so much about the screwjob/railroading that the main ST conceded that non-Invictus/LS deputies *had* to be appointed by the Sheriff and Mistress of Elysium in an attempt to keep them happy.

Is it possible, that simply by role-playing my PC well, which includes being ambitious and an intolerant bastard, I might drive some players to such frustration they might quit the game?

I'm not trying to sound like I'm super role-player dude, that I'm being arrogant about this. As a player interested in keeping a pretty good game (so far) going strong, I'm concerned that playing covenant politics this hard might actually damage the game.

So should I ease up some? Should I throw a bone? Or do I simply play for keeps, since that is what the PC would do (not being concerned with such things as players after all)? Other strategies?

Thanks all.

[Glacialis]

If they quit, they're not cut out for it.

I'm dead serious. Pun intended.

Vampire, especially the live action versions and either Masquerade or Requiem, is about backstabby politics of the worst nature. If ONE CHARACTER can stymy the efforts of >1 person, that one person is someone to be reckoned with. When you overcome them, it will be that much sweeter.

Some of the best scenes I've had were ones where both I and the participant knew the outcome. Not, "I just know he's going to hoist out my skeletons in front of the Prince." We talked about it beforehand, knew each other's goals, determined what should happen, and were then able to roleplay each detail for maximum impact.

Talk to these players. If they're the competitive sort IRL, you may have a problem. Otherwise, give them some tips on generic political wrangling. Are they otherwise ineffective?

The ST should NOT be giving in at this point. Keeping the players happy is not the point. Replace OD with Carthians, and that's where our game was since its inception. We had NO positions, and were the supreme underdog. We LOVED it, each baby step was a major victory.

Play for keeps. Talk to the players and tell them that you're not going to go easy on them just because they're whiny. But tell them, after the fact, where they're screwing up. Don't give them the map to politically beat you into a pulp, but at least help them out with their character's tactics. Their own are obvious not working.

One question. How long has this "status quo" been? How often does your game run? We had at least six months before the game stopped, and we could have gone on much, much longer than that. Invictus on top, with the Sanctum so close behind that when it tipped over to them being at the top, there wasn't any noticable change. Except for bitchy Invictus...

[OffWhite Knight]

One question. How long has this "status quo" been? How often does your game run? We had at least six months before the game stopped, and we could have gone on much, much longer than that. Invictus on top, with the Sanctum so close behind that when it tipped over to them being at the top, there wasn't any noticable change. Except for bitchy Invictus...

Interesting reply. To answer your question, the "status quo" was the pre-game set up by the ST team, the back story if you will. NPCs, played by STs and Narrators, took the court positions and those NPCs were almost all Invictus or Sanctified.

And it's a once a month game, with a message board and occassional sit-downs.

[jadedeath]

I agree with what's presented thus far...

I had one player who complained that two other players {the then Prince and Seneshal} were stealing the limelight...

I took said player aside and explained to them that the Elysium was run by the Prince and Seneshal... that's what they do... and I also took the concerns to the Player of the Seneshal and Prince to let them know that said concerns were being brought up and to possibly think of ways to get the other players involved...

this failed miserably considering that when the Prince and Seneshal actually went totally out of their way to placate said player... said player STILL had a problem...

at which point I shrugged and said "why are you talking to me about this out-of-game... I'm just the ST... I only work here... you have an in-game problem..." and left it at that...

said player eventually quit the game in frustration because I wouldn't do anything to help them dethrone the Prince and Seneshal... I wasn't going to hinder them mind you... if they could pull it off I wouldn't care one way or the other... but they proceeded to do continually stupid shit to try and dethrone them like contacting known allies of the management in the city and try to convert them without offering anything... the "what's in it for me" statements that I made fell on deaf ears...

to address your point more now that I've ended my story... I say kick your ST in the ass for interfering in the game... this is a LARP... the ST's shouldn't really be in control of anything... unless it's at the beginning of a LARP and the NPC's are there to be in charge for a little while until the PC's either dethrone them or the NPC's fall into Torpor... ST's are administrators... let the PLAYERS play the game...

that's just my estimation of what the ST/player relationship should be for a LARP though... take it as you will...

Logan

[BlU_sKrEEm]

I'll agree with what is being said, and add a "Sounds like the kind of game I wish I were in."

[OffWhite Knight]

Something of an update on the situation...

Okay, in the previous game, the Daeva Primogen was selected by the Primogen Council to be the Mistress of Elysium. It was assumed that she was going to have to give up her Primogen seat. So the Ordo Primogen claims the Daeva spot and the Ordo put in another Primogen...

Problem is, she didn't want to give up her Council seat. And the original Ordo Primogen that claimed the Davea spot, lied to the Prince about having a clan consensus. And so the original Daeva Primogen manuvered her way back into her seat. Leaving the original Ordo Primogen without any seat at all...

Still with me? Good.

The Council decides that the original Ordo Primogen would be a good Herald. But he panics, thinking that I (in particular) am trying to put him into an unwinnable sitation/position. And he rejects the position of Herald in front of the Prince. Prince gets pissed.

The Ordo got pissed too, thinking it was pointless for them to try any politics at all. So any Ordo with any position, resigned their position.

So now, one of the largest PC groups in the game has decided to say the hell with politics and reject any position at all. Which has thrown everyone into a tizzy.

So what I helped to start, with railroading some Invictus candidates, has eventually led to the withdrawal of the Ordo from politics (though not the game).

The straw that broke the Ordo back, was the Daeva Primogen reclaiming her Council seat while retaining the Mistress of Elysium post. Who is she? My wife. After only playing part-time in two other LARPS, she out-politicked and out-manuevered a guy that has been playing for at least a decade. Gotta be honest, I was proud of her skill and acumen.

So what the hell is going on? What does the Ordo have to gain by their actions? Did we (I ask again) screw over the game when we played our PCs to screw over the Ordo?

BTW, this has been a fun game. Well, unless you are Ordo (the guy that got screwed out of the Council? When brought in to talk about becoming Herald he was shaking and his eyes were read and welling up a bit...and another vet was clearly very POed). But everyone else seems to be having fun and there seems to be some very good roleplaying going on.

Anyway, I value the thoughts of those here. I can't access the boards from work anymore (that hacking business screwed up the work filters), but it's still clearly the best WW/VtR board on the entire WWW.

[Naggoth]

I havent played larp in my life, but reading this stuff makes me wish I did. I agree with whats been posted already. Im ST'ing a game at the moment and I let the players have free reign to screw each other over within the context of the game. We're all adults and no one has had any problems so far despite their plans getting spoiled/wrecked/totally violated by the "in character actions" of other pc's.

[Santiago]

The correct response to the Ordo "quitting" and "resigning" from the Danse Macabre is to unite and crush them under foot. Make sure the STs make it very clear to the Ordo playes that they have just done the dumbest thing possible - they slit their own wrists in shark infested water. The LS and Invictus SHOULD take this opportunity to eliminate the Ordo as any kind of threat. Be the shark. Eat the wounded prey.

I really should finish that piece on "Why You Suck at this Game" piece I was going to write. This is a prime example.