[zenten]

Now, vampires (this is going to apply to either game btw, since they are so simular in this regard) don't like getting into physical fights, especialy to the death. Something about the whole immortality thing I think.

So, what do you do when you really dislike someone else? Now, you could attack their human support network, but that's a lot of work, and might not be within your area of influence.

However, there is one thing that is quite easy to do, especialy if you have a lot more status (and Status) than the other person.

Make fun of them. A lot. The type of insult is personal in nature, but shouldn't be so subtle that they won't get they're insulted. Also, bring in your friends on this. Other vampires who are you allies should join in on this. This is also a wonderful way to call in boons.

Public humiliation is really in character for vampires, and it's something that anoying twinks will care about as well. After all, even if the player doesn't care about their PC's life, they're not going to want to be the object of ridicule.

Of course you want to make sure this stays in game, you don't need to hurt the players feelings (unless the players are being jackasses as well), however, since this is a game for mature minds, hopefuly this won't be an issue.

[serial_experiments]

I wonder why you say this... Do you have any anecdotes you may want to share?

[OffWhite Knight]

I totally agree.

In my own example, in another thread, I was going to get some allies to help me taunt another PC into some Frenzy checks...if they Frenzy at Elysium, they lose Status and might even be banned from Elysium. Dangerous, but I figured I could take a a few slaps about the head and still stand. And the other guy's PC would have his reputation tainted for months.

A game or three of this and that person will feel like their PC is powerless...which means they might do something desperate, stupid, or will try to make a deal.

Of course, don't forget the worse case scenario, that the person quits.

But the best thing about it is the non-lethality of it. There's a way out, somehow, and that's appealling. Death, or Final Death, is so...final.

[Tuesday]

Or, you could forget about making them frenzy (because, if you're actually playing Vampire, NO vampire is going to frenzy and attack you in Elysium unless you do something to them that will get *you* banned), and just make fun of them.

You can do this if you have less Status than them, too. You just need a good reason. This is how the Harpies work, after all.

[jadedeath]

You don't even need to insult them... too quick...

do some digging... be smart about it... find out some info on what they're up to the nastier the dirt the better...

then drag them aside at elysium and make sure that if they don't do whatever it is that you tell them to do {even publicly renoucing some of their previous allies or statements if done right} otherwise you start talking about whatever information you have...

outright insults {unless phrased correctly and intelligently} are the sort of thing that makes the game look like squabbling children... best to play the game like a conniving blackmailing backstabber...

most Princes are also smart... and if you get into an insult match in the middle of elysium {and you started it} and someone frenzies... you might both be on the hook for breaching elysium...

Logan

[zenten]

outright insults {unless phrased correctly and intelligently} are the sort of thing that makes the game look like squabbling children... best to play the game like a conniving blackmailing backstabber...

That is what vampire is about though.

You can do this if you have less Status than them, too. You just need a good reason. This is how the Harpies work, after all.

Insulting your betters though tends to get you ostrasized yourself though.

[Tuesday]

> That is what vampire is about though.

Not quite. Squabbling children, no. Ultracompetitive people - like any group of predators in the wild - yes. It's not just highschool, it's corporations and religions and any place you get driven personalities coming into conflict with each other.

> Insulting your betters though tends to get you ostrasized yourself though.

Only if they really are your better. A well-placed insult in the right ears in the right place at the right time means that your Status goes up and theirs goes down - instead of Status enforcing your behaviour (or you pay for it), your behaviour enforces Status.

The trick, as always, is what you can get away with.

[jadedeath]

Not quite.  Squabbling children, no.  Ultracompetitive people - like any group of predators in the wild - yes.  It's not just highschool, it's corporations and religions and any place you get driven personalities coming into conflict with each other.

most definately... plus they're pushed by the beast... and they know how preciously thin that line is between madness and sanity... so they wouldn't go out of their way to push someone into a frenzy... unless they had a death wish... or they could do it from afar making sure they were extremely clear of the blast radius when the Prince came down on their head... and most vamps like their unlife and cling tenaciously to it... verbally poking someone until they snap is a little on the "why the fuck would you do THAT?" side of the fence...

Only if they really are your better.  A well-placed insult in the right ears in the right place at the right time means that your Status goes up and theirs goes down - instead of Status enforcing your behaviour (or you pay for it), your behaviour enforces Status.

The trick, as always, is what you can get away with.

depends on the situation... as always... and the person you're speaking to... they might weigh the options and hand you in to the person you're insulting... depends on what YOU can do for them...

Logan