[Santiago]

Role-playing Prestation
Everything that has been discussed is all well and good but the joy of learning is in applying what has been learned. And that is what this section is about.

The big thing with role-playing prestation is to make it stylish and not mechanical. Vampire is a game of elegance and tradition so make sure you get involved in that tradition and embrace what vampire is suppose to be. Make sure what you are saying and doing adds to the atmosphere whenever possible. Simply put, if you find yourself saying I will do X for Y boon then you are doing it wrong, plain and simple.

It is better to work the request into a conversation in a more elegant way. The person you are speaking to already knows what the favour is worth and you already know what you are willing to play. Instead of making the transaction sound like a game of “Go Fish”, just ask the person in a respectable manner to do the favour you need done. If they agree to do the favour for you, you then owe them the appropriate boon. If they do not, you owe nothing. And, if there are going to any restrictions put on the favour, the person asked will be able to get into that.

If you are trying offering to pay more than a standard rate for the favour, make sure you let the person you are asking in a way that flows into the regular conversation. “I consider this to be more than a minor favour” sounds a helluva lot better than “I will give you a major boon instead of a minor.” The latter method breaks the mood and texture of the game. As a player or Storyteller it is your duty to do everything you can to foster and improve the mood, not damage it.

Trying to talk down a boon should be done with same kind of style. Saying some like “I am sure for someone of your esteemed position this would just be a minor inconvience” layers the atmosphere and beauty of the World of Darkness on more thickly. Do this whenever you can.


Reneging on a Debt
This should be one of the rarest things to ever happen in a game. Breaking your word when prestation is involved should no more common the violations of the Masquerade or committing violence in Elysium. (No, I will not comment on the gross negligence on the part of some games.) In Kindred terms, not paying back a debt is the exact same thing as a country devaluing its currency. It causes massive shock waves throughout society.

The immediate effect of you reneging on a debt will be a loss of status. This is pretty much impossible to avoid. Other consequences could be ostracism, a number of people calling other boons you owe them and the requirement that you pay up front for all other favours in the future.

How this plays out in-game is through word of mouth alone. The wronged party MUST spread the information around. It is part of how the society of the damned works so it becomes imperative that the wronged party play the game as intended. The society will back the wronged party.

Mechanically, besides the the loss of Status, the Storyteller should immediately apply a penalty on all social interactions. I would suggest a permanent one trait penalty on all non-discipline social challenges. If the boon reneged on was a Blood Boon or Life Boon the penalty should be increased to three with a further loss of Status beyond a single level. The Storyteller should also apply an XP penalty of some type.

While it is bad enough when a character reneges on a debt, there is the reverse effect of a character crying wolf. This should be more rare and be met with equally severe sanctions on the lying party. The accuser will have no proof and this fact should show up in game.

Some of you likely believe what is being advocated here to be excessive. Though severe, I do not believe it to be excessive. Prestation is one of the conceits of the game. It is the foundation of the Kindred economy and needs to be taken as seriously in game as the real world protects its economy. Along with the Traditions, the Code of Milan and Elysium, Prestation should be considered sacrosanct. Just like you don't piss on the Pope during mass, you do not violate your word when it comes to prestation. To do so makes the game worse more often than not.

Out of Game Accounting
The out of game management of prestation can be a headache but it does not need to be. Having a book with a page for each character where the players log the info in and out should suffice. An accounting ledger book is probably your best bet but even a full page version of the “Boon Section” from the table top Vampire: the Masquerade character sheets. As a Storyteller, allow the players to manage their own boons out of game. So long as they are told what to do and how to do it, trust them to do it. All you should need to do is review it.

One Boon, Two Boon, Three Boon, Four...
One common issue that arises regularly is converting smaller boons into larger or vice versa. Simply put, there are no hard and fast rules. For time based boons, generally you just keep adding the smaller time-frames together until you hit the next bench mark. This means that a Minor Boon would be worth around two to five Trivial Boons approximately. A Major Boon could be worth two or three minor boons depending on the specifics of the Minor Boons while a Major Boon being paid back in Trivial Boons might take fifteen or more.

For Blood Boons and Life Boons it is very much at the discretion of the characters involved. This will require the players to be respectful of each other and the Storyteller should make sure he is in a position to intervene and moderate out of game if need be. Alternately, it is also possible to take the character's case to the game at large as an in game forum. The Primogen's Council has some suggestions

If you are looking for something more mechanical, a Blood Boon could equal 3 Major Boons while a like would represent 5 Major Boons. Though not as role-playing based, this option might be more suitable for larger games.

So there you have it. Prestation made easy. Hopefully you will be able to use this information to enrich your MET experience for yourself and the rest of your troupe.

[jadedeath]

For Blood Boons and Life Boons it is very much at the discretion of the characters involved. This will require the players to be respectful of each other and the Storyteller should make sure he is in a position to intervene and moderate out of game if need be. Alternately, it is also possible to take the character's case to the game at large as an in game forum. The Primogen's Council has some suggestions

If you are looking for something more mechanical, a Blood Boon could equal 3 Major Boons while a like would represent 5 Major Boons. Though not as role-playing based, this option might be more suitable for larger games.

So there you have it. Prestation made easy. Hopefully you will be able to use this information to enrich your MET experience for yourself and the rest of your troupe.

I've always applied a sliding scale of 3 for the games that I run.. 3 minors = a major that sort of thing... the reason for this is because 3 blood boons effectively mean that they could ask you to drink 3 times and after that they pretty much own you...

Logan

[Santiago]

Blood Bonding yourself is not really in the realm of prestation. Becoming someone's vassal is not a favor, it is slavery. Offering to pay by drinking someone else's Blood is an act of desperation and could quite coceivably be the result of reneging in the past or being someone of seriously ill repute - aka Caitiff - who needs a favor but has no currency to pay with.

[jadedeath]

Blood Bonding yourself is not really in the realm of prestation. Becoming someone's vassal is not a favor, it is slavery. Offering to pay by drinking someone else's Blood is an act of desperation and could quite coceivably be the result of reneging in the past or being someone of seriously ill repute - aka Caitiff - who needs a favor but has no currency to pay with.

that's part of the point... if you owe someone a blood boon they could ask you to drink as part of your repayment... it doesn't always happen usually not but it could... and that's part of my reasoning... 3 drinks and they own you... 3 blood boons and it becomes a life... usually it shouldn't get that far...

Logan

[Santiago]

that's part of the point... if you owe someone a blood boon they could ask you to drink as part of your repayment... it doesn't always happen usually not but it could... and that's part of my reasoning... 3 drinks and they own you... 3 blood boons and it becomes a life... usually it shouldn't get that far...

No, you can't. You repay favours with a favours. There is no gavor being retuned when you become someone's thrall.

[jadedeath]

No, you can't. You repay favours with a favours. There is no gavor being retuned when you become someone's thrall.

the favor is your life... hence the life boon...

Logan

This post has been edited by jadedeath: 26 June 2006 - 05:02 AM

[Santiago]

the favor is your life... hence the life boon...

And? You don't pay back someone your life by shooting yourself in the head? A boon is a favour, nothing more. Agreeing to eternal slavery IS NOT returning a favour. It is stupid. Plain and simple.

[jadedeath]

And? You don't pay back someone your life by shooting yourself in the head? A boon is a favour, nothing more. Agreeing to eternal slavery IS NOT returning a favour. It is stupid. Plain and simple.

Different strokes for different folks... welcome to the nWoD system in which people play the game differently... you have certain ways of playing the game... I have mine... boons can encompass many different things... if one of them is your life then they owe you their life... it matters not what trivialities you want to bicker about beyond that point... there's no way of paying off a life boon unless you're dead... {or you're DAMN good at what you do}

Logan

This post has been edited by jadedeath: 26 June 2006 - 08:41 AM

[I Hate All Life]

One might question the wisdom of submiting to the blood bond, but if you owe a life boon, you might not have much to lose. Letting yourself be manuvered into that situation might be considered stupid, but if you effectively belong to someone, it might not be incocievable to agree to a bond... it's better to slavishly love someone than to serve someone you hate.

I think such a situation would be a very rare occurance, but to say it doesn't happen seems slapdash. People do even dumber things every day, and Kindred are just as prone to bad decisions.

[Santiago]

Different strokes for different folks... welcome to the nWoD system in which people play the game differently... you have certain ways of playing the game... I have mine... boons can encompass many different things... if one of them is your life then they owe you their life... it matters not what trivialities you want to bicker about beyond that point... there's no way of paying off a life boon unless you're dead... {or you're DAMN good at what you do}

Then you really don't understand how a Life Boon works. There is canonical statement of how life boons are paid back in the V:tM books. Apply the Chewbacca defence all you want. It isn't going to make my head explode and agree with you nor is it going to ground your arguement into any degree of reason or practicality.

[Glacialis]

As much as I realize that this series of Prestation posts is written from a VtM perspective, much of it is applicable to Requiem.

Much, but not all. Santiago, when you've summed up your main thoughts, would you mind contrasting this material with Requiem's take on things? I don't know how familiar you are with VtR, but perhaps if you're not, someone else can take a shot at it.

[Santiago]

As much as I realize that this series of Prestation posts is written from a VtM perspective, much of it is applicable to Requiem.

Much, but not all. Santiago, when you've summed up your main thoughts, would you mind contrasting this material with Requiem's take on things? I don't know how familiar you are with VtR, but perhaps if you're not, someone else can take a shot at it.

I' m more than familiar enough with V:tR to add it in. The difference isn't that extreme per the books. There are fewer steps but the over all values are pretty similiar. Not sure I will do it but I'd be more than happy to see a sane, rational person take a stab at it.

[Glacialis]

We shold try to do it per the tabletop books. Yes yes I realize it happens in larp more often than tabletop, but this is sort of a crossover forum for everything.

Now, from the larp perspective? I pretty much ignore Requiem MET's changes to the setting, and go by what tabletop says. Personal choice.

Whatever position we debate from in this forum, it's probably a good idea to state what system/books you're using as basis for your argument, what bits you're not using, and what extra bits you're mixing in. Larp rules are sooo much of a mixed bag.

[Santiago]

We shold try to do it per the tabletop books. Yes yes I realize it happens in larp more often than tabletop, but this is sort of a crossover forum for everything.

Now, from the larp perspective? I pretty much ignore Requiem MET's changes to the setting, and go by what tabletop says. Personal choice.

Whatever position we debate from in this forum, it's probably a good idea to state what system/books you're using as basis for your argument, what bits you're not using, and what extra bits you're mixing in. Larp rules are sooo much of a mixed bag.

For Masquearde there is no change in setting between MET and Table Top. Requiem is a pain in the ass since MET went and blew up all the useful and interesting parts of TT and replced it with the bland.

[Glacialis]

Sorry. That's what I meant to say.

The resolution system is good, but...I think I'm going to start another thread for people to present their house rules, like I promised Dolston I would ages ago.

[zenten]

For Masquearde there is no change in setting between MET and Table Top. Requiem is a pain in the ass since MET went and blew up all the useful and interesting parts of TT and replced it with the bland.

Well, there is a difference, but it's ignored by most sane people

[Santiago]

There are a couple of really small changes - Harpy as a named, formal and appointed position - but beyond that I can't see a lot from the MET stuff that outright contradicts the world presented in the Table Top books. Mechanics on the other hand...

[jadedeath]

There are a couple of really small changes - Harpy as a named, formal and appointed position - but beyond that I can't see a lot from the MET stuff that outright contradicts the world presented in the Table Top books. Mechanics on the other hand...

it's true... the Mechanics are almost the exact same as in TT... with the exception of the resolution stage which could have easily been covered in about 10 {or so} pages in the main rules and saved most players from buying another 30 dollar book...

Logan

[Santiago]

MET V:tR makes MASSIVE changes to how the world works compared to the table top source material. LotN is required since the mechanics are so vastly different than TT but te setting is acutally the same. This can not be said about MET Requiem at all.

As a side note, by the rules presented in MET Requiem it is physically impossible to pay back a life boon which amuses me to no end. One more reason to avoid the book like a plague.

[zenten]

Anyway, back to boons and whatnot.

A blood bond is not appropriate for a life boon. Why? Because while renegging on boons is rare, if forced in such a situation most vampires would reneg, since it's only really one step short of accepting death for your boon. Since vampires don't reneg on life boons usualy, obviously this isn't appropriate.