[zenten]

The problem with that is that Rome (unless my mind is fugging with me) had no official religion. Not as such anyway. they ahd the greek pantheon, but they basically incorporated every pagan god they conquered into it, and encouraged religious freedom.

Still, I could see a Coveant dedicated to worshiping Jupiter for example, or a cult of warriors dedicated to Mars.

Well, there were the state sponsored gods (such as Jupiter and Mars), and the ones where worshiping them were banned (there were also ones in the middle, but they don't need a covenant).

[Eryx_UK]

I wouldn't bother with covenants for this, I'd do it by houses. Several major houses of vampires and a number of smaller ones.

Perhaps the larger houses are based around an aspect of Roman life/civilisation that they have seized control of... the senate, trade, religion, military...etc. Obviously they seek dominence and try to steal influence from one another. Perhaps the eventual infighting among the houses is what causes the ultimate collapse of the empire.

[Temple]

There is a pattern to the types of Covenants in the game:

The religious type, which deals with accepting the vampiric state, and the secular, which deal with vampiric society and the worth of the individual vampire.

I think basing the social groups, be they houses or actual Covenants, on this is a good place to begin..

[SelrahctheEternal]

Perhaps there should be less of that? Maybe the split occured with the rise of the Lancea Sanctum and the decline of the pagan religion in Roman society. The old sects could enmesh the spiritual and mystical into one... As was the custom for the societys with political rulers being gods and masters of religion as well.

[Temple]

Not bad thinking, that!

[Pigsticker Bill]

Ancient Rome is a great setting. I'd recommend savvying up on Roman history and society. I'd recommend not concentrating too much on which covenants you should incorporate into your setting right now. You have 2 so far, and that is all you really need to start out with.

I like the small, budding, probably very tenacious Lancea Sanctum sect. They'd probably be something like the outcasts who are holding onto this new religion and these new powers but keep to themselves (probably out of safety).

The Crones have all sorts of potential. Lots of gods were worshiped in Rome, lots of pieces of foriegn religions were incorporated into their rituals or beliefs, not to mention the influx of cultures, mores and language brought in through slaves and soldiers.

Also keep this in mind, who are your elder vampires. What ties to ancient Rome or even possibly the Etruscans do you want to make. Maybe you have 2 ancient vampires that like to assume the mythical figures of Romulus and Remus, maybe one of them is in torpor (or dead). Maybe there is a Circle court around one or both of these mythical figures.

There is an influx of people, business, soldiers, entertainers, merchants coming into and out of Rome daily. This could offer many opportunities for rather colorful NPCs to be residing in the city. Create your NPC's first, at least the major figures and then see what works in terms of covenants. Maybe, and most probably, you'll come up with your own. Certainlly with the large military influence in the city (as well as the ex occupations of many of the slaves) there might be a psuedo-militaristic type of covenant who honors or revers Mars or some foreign god of battle/war/what have you.

Slaves make for wonderful feeding opportunities. Vampires would be very populous in this setting I'd think.

Bravo to you.

[krazlica]

If your game is going to be empire spanning in the bloodlines the hidden book, theres a section on the Khaibat that talks about the worshippers of set.

[Libra]

Try the following.

The word "wolf" in history has equally been levelled against villainous men and women as against the animal. The Norse word vargr gave rise to warg, which eventually not only described outlaws, but evolved into the word "werewolf".

Now, in this context, recall that the legend states that Romulus and Remus were raised and suckled by a "she - wolf".

The Latin word for this "she - wolf" is meretrix (the word from which the English word meretricious, meaning "wicked, scandalous" derives).

The word meretrix also means "prostitute".

In Kindred terms, that "prostitute" could be anybody: a mortal woman, a Qedeshah temple whore who raised two ghouls from her ghoul family ... anybody, as a matter of fact ...

[anodyr]

First, apologies for the thread necromancy - I was flicking through the archives and this caught my imagination.

Specifically I was drawn to think about the Lancea Sanctum angle:

1) Temple mentioned using 70AD as his setting year. By my count that puts the chronicle no more than 40 years after Jesus' crucifixion, and therefore Longinus' damnation.

2) The LS would therefore be almost non-existant. Possibilities for its inclusion are 1) Longinus has embraced one or two mortals who are now wandering the lands as disciples/prophets of his damnation. Definitely fire-brand preacher types. or 2) Longinus hasnt embraced anyone yet, and is wandering alone, bemoaning the fact that he has been damned (and therefore is himself a prophet/firebrand preacher type). Also, they'd probably be called something else - its not the spear thats important to them at this time, its the sire e.g. they might be the Sons of Longinus or something.

3) This setting works on the assumption that the story of Christ is true. It can no longer be a mythological basis as there will be mortals (as well as kindred) alive that witnessed Longinus piercing Christs side. To me the difference between a cov based on what is ultimately a religious legend (in modern nights they all believe in Christ, Longinus, the Crucifixion etc. but they dont have hard evidence, much like any religious ideal) and one based on hard fact is quite important in shaping the fledgling LS. Its not a case of whether or not the Son of God was really crucified etc. anymore, but instead becomes a question of whether or not the guy that was crucified was in fact the son of God. A potentially important distinction imo. Alternatively a vamp might have witnessed a roman soldier piercing Christs side, got inspired, and then made the rest up...

[WWWill]

Just a quick reminder that our two-book Roman miniseries is in late development and art design now for release soon. The first book, Requiem for Rome, details the history of the Camarilla in both Rome and the subterranean city of Necropolis, up to and including the death of Julian the Apostate at the hands of a mysterious spearman. The second book, Fall of the Camarilla, is a chronicle book full of scenes, Storytelling and characterization advice, new antagonists and astonishing secrets of vampire history, all told through a playable epic telling the tale of the Camarilla's end.

Cheers,
Will

[Nepher]

You necromancy is too potent, Anodyr. Not only you rise this thread from the grave, but Will too

Thanks for the new info, Will. You manage to rise even more interrest in these two books (Necropolis!!!)

[pascale]

Another thing: I may just skip Covenants alltogether. Upon reading the Camarila thing in the core, it seems that the first proto-Covenants appeared after the fall of the empire.. Imagine that.

Yeah, because civilization began with Rome...

The Ventrue founder may still be around....

Thats assuming that you are going with the idea of the Ventrue arising in Rome.

That could actually be a very interesting angle: the birth of the ventrue. They would still be relative unknowns, recently split from the gangrel, perhaps, going from rulers of beasts to rulers of men... The angle of the bloodline becoming a full blown (and powerful) clan can be very interesting, and also provides lots of fodder for the future, when the ventrue claim to be first amongst the undead and would probably destroy their enemies for even mentioning their "beastly" origins...

2) The LS would therefore be almost non-existant. Possibilities for its inclusion are 1) Longinus has embraced one or two mortals who are now wandering the lands as disciples/prophets of his damnation. Definitely fire-brand preacher types. or 2) Longinus hasnt embraced anyone yet, and is wandering alone, bemoaning the fact that he has been damned (and therefore is himself a prophet/firebrand preacher type). Also, they'd probably be called something else - its not the spear thats important to them at this time, its the sire e.g. they might be the Sons of Longinus or something.

3) This setting works on the assumption that the story of Christ is true. It can no longer be a mythological basis as there will be mortals (as well as kindred) alive that witnessed Longinus piercing Christs side. To me the difference between a cov based on what is ultimately a religious legend (in modern nights they all believe in Christ, Longinus, the Crucifixion etc. but they dont have hard evidence, much like any religious ideal) and one based on hard fact is quite important in shaping the fledgling LS. Its not a case of whether or not the Son of God was really crucified etc. anymore, but instead becomes a question of whether or not the guy that was crucified was in fact the son of God. A potentially important distinction imo. Alternatively a vamp might have witnessed a roman soldier piercing Christs side, got inspired, and then made the rest up...

It also creates another opportunity to see history get rewritten. After all, if your characters are around to meet Longinus, obviously he isn't the first of the cursed as will later only be denied by risking persecution... Your characters will get the potential to be the covenants greatest enemies, by revealing the truth under the "church's skirt", or to become its despotic masters by actually penning the rewritten authorized versions of the tales of Longinus and the history of the Lancea Sanctum, and quashing all competing splinter sects...

[Fabio Sooner]

Just a quick reminder that our two-book Roman miniseries is in late development and art design now for release soon. The first book, Requiem for Rome, details the history of the Camarilla in both Rome and the subterranean city of Necropolis, up to and including the death of Julian the Apostate at the hands of a mysterious spearman. The second book, Fall of the Camarilla, is a chronicle book full of scenes, Storytelling and characterization advice, new antagonists and astonishing secrets of vampire history, all told through a playable epic telling the tale of the Camarilla's end.
Cheers,
Will

That' s very interesting. Thanks, Will.

Over a local mailing list, some DA fans were concerned about how they liked to play characters in an age where vampires were usually of lower generation and elders were even more powerful and nigh-unreachable, in a general sense. Some see the Requiem setting as one where vampire society started at this era (at all, not just how we know it in modern times), so we won't see ancient vampires with more than 1,000 years and a totally alien mindset in old Rome; I replied that it's not set in stone (just as Mythologies implies), and maybe the Rome miniseries will feature elders with truly different outlooks on the vampiric condition and even memories of proto-societies that existed way before Rome.

I wonder if you could say anything about this without dwelling too much into spoilerage territory. If so, it would be good - I guess Rome could be a cornerstone to bring a number of old DA: Vampire players into Requiem, at least around here where I live.

This post has been edited by Fabio Sooner: 08 June 2007 - 06:10 PM

[WWWill]

Vampires existed prior to Rome, to be sure. Long prior to Rome, in fact. And not just vampires, but beings often mistaken for vampires that are responsible for much vampire legendry among mortals.

What started in Rome is the culture of the Kindred that eventually became what we know in the modern night. Before they were called the Damned, they were called Kindred, because in life they were our fathers and mothers, our sisters and brothers, our ancestors to be revered and hated.

But there is no clan called Venture in ancient Rome. Not yet. What we might consider to be the Ventrue tonight go by another name.

Cheers,
Will

[Deimos_Masque]

Very interesting, but doesn't that also through out the "Vampires decended from Roman Emperor theory" out of the water too?

[Temple]

Very interesting, but doesn't that also through out the "Vampires decended from Roman Emperor theory" out of the water too?

Only if you let it.

[Wood]

I just want to say this: I've worked bloody hard on this project and I am proud of it.





That is all.

[Deimos_Masque]

Wood worked on it? Worked on it hard?

I am so buying it.

Actually, my avatar tells the whole story about I feel when Wood has worked on a book I'm reading.

[Wood]

Wood worked on it? Worked on it hard?

85,000 words hard.

I am so buying it.

Actually, my avatar tells the whole story about I feel when Wood has worked on a book I'm reading.

I'm, uh, flattered.





No, really I am.

[Deimos_Masque]

Dude, you are one of the best writers in the WOD lines... period. End of Discussion.
I like your game work and your fiction work. So there!