[wratticus]

All right --

I did it.

Was at a con over the weekend and the Cam was hosting a LARP - I had nothing better to do, so I thought I'd at least give the new WoD a try.

What better way to try the WoD than Vampire, and what better way to learn Vampire than as a ghoul, right?

Well, I learned, all right.

And, with all due respect to those of you who enjoy the new WoD, but I was BORED TO TEARS. (Would that be BtT? )

I remember my first reaction to WoD Classic was something along the lines of, "This is COOL! I really want to try this!"

The reactions I'm getting to the New WoD vary from sheer revulsion to, "Um - Ok, maybe I can make this work."

But, the essence of it is that it doesn't THRILL me the way the old WoD did.

I mean, Vampire is a good game - it is a decent gateway drug that can lead to a very healthy gaming habit. But, I could even get genuinely interested in a decent VtM game - but the new Requiem just made me want to go to sleep.

Now, I've played classic WoD VtM. And, in all honesty, was amazed by the flexibility of the system and the way in which it could play host to such a social dynamic.

Maybe I'm just ticked at WW for taking my favorite toy away - Changeling, the Dreaming.

But, I guess, I was just used to the intrigue and everything when I played before. Maybe I need a better group to play with.

I guess I'm trying to salvage the experience so maybe I can go back.

But, I do miss playing the Classic WoD.

I don't know.

Any thoughts?

Much Thanx --

Wratticus

This post has been edited by wratticus: 18 July 2006 - 03:27 AM

[jadedeath]

Any thoughts?

Much Thanx --

Wratticus[/color]

could be any number of problems... it was a Cam LARP if you're used to the way they run things it could be standard if you're not used to the way the Cam runs things you might not have as much fun...

or it could have been that you were playing a ghoul... I've played a ghoul in an oWoD game and it wasn't anywhere near as exciting as getting an even average meat and potatoes kindred character...

might have just been an off night for the other players or ST...

end result... if you want to play oWoD then that's cool too...

Logan

[Kuroukaze]

Dude, to properly understand the joys of the new WoD, you must play a mortal in a mortal game hunting and being hunted by something you can't understand.

In the old WoD, the Horror was internal. In the new Wod, the horror is Cthulu. At least, that's the feeling it's going for. And it's so, so yummy.

But yeah, the problem was probably the playing group. That's the problem 90% of the time, usually. I got tons of ideas just by reading the Requiem book, and I'm not much of a Vampire player. Forsaken, though...there's a game that'll get you hooked. Mage is awesome and all, but the Forsaken core was absolute art in execution.

[Luxifer]

Dude, to properly understand the joys of the new WoD, you must play a mortal in a mortal game hunting and being hunted by something you can't understand.

In the old WoD, the Horror was internal. In the new Wod, the horror is Cthulu. At least, that's the feeling it's going for. And it's so, so yummy.

But yeah, the problem was probably the playing group. That's the problem 90% of the time, usually. I got tons of ideas just by reading the Requiem book, and I'm not much of a Vampire player. Forsaken, though...there's a game that'll get you hooked. Mage is awesome and all, but the Forsaken core was absolute art in execution.

I think it's the otherway around. Yes there is a lot of cthuloid horror, but I think the horror in nWoD is much more internal than oWoD.

[Kuroukaze]

I meant more that there is evil in the world, more evil then just what's brought to the table. The new WoD is much darker, much more shadowed then the old in presentation. There was an explination for everything in the old WoD stuff. In the new stuff you ahve the Beast of Bethlehem and all of the weird goodness that seeps into the dark cracks of the world.

[jadedeath]

I meant more that there is evil in the world, more evil then just what's brought to the table. The new WoD is much darker, much more shadowed then the old in presentation. There was an explination for everything in the old WoD stuff. In the new stuff you ahve the Beast of Bethlehem and all of the weird goodness that seeps into the dark cracks of the world.

I can agree and disagree with that statement... looking at it from a vampire standpoint if you take only the main rules Vampire Requiem vs Masquerade IS alot darker... it's only after you get into the 50+ bloodlines that you start to loose a bit of the horror in favor of the bigger and better powers problem that Masquerade had makes it a little more comic bookish IMO...

from a mortal standpoint the nWoD is amazingly darker... that I can totally agree with...

Logan

[zenten]

I think this was really a case of you being with a group not suited to what you want, and not the game itself.

[LadyHydralisk]

Have fun kids!

This post has been edited by LadyHydralisk: 01 August 2006 - 05:24 AM

[Dolston]

Requiem is boring. It reminds me of X-men combined with Star Trek with fangs. Mechanics are nothing without original and compelling new tales and concepts.

I' m not a fan of Requiem but it does bring a lot of new concepts and ideals to explore. Many of them are heavily muddied by Masquerade through backs but they are there.

I was, in life, from the time I was a small child, raised to be familiar with magic and comfortable with darkness, so Requiem seems little more than another nerdy escape from mediocrity not intended for me.  I do like the idea that people are learning and exploring hidden dimensions of the universe through such games, and that perhaps one day they will open their minds to the real World of Darkness. lol

The real world of darness is the hearts of man. If you are suggesting something else, like say I should becareful least a vampire try to eat me, then this may not be the best forum for that discussion.

My excuse for Vampire is improv theatre. I always wanted to learn how to act, and I adopted LARP as a hobby solely for this purpose.

A good venue to do so. I know a few actors who play to practice various things.

I actually have been playing a year but have only used my character sheet when the storyteller instructed me to make a roll. I don't even use my XP, since I don't know how to apply points anyways!

If you are going to participate you should know the basics of game play to go with the acting as it can be disruptive. But all and all, trying to avoid challenges is a good thing.

I loved the Brujah tale White Wolf's authors wrote. It was so original and stimulating. I thought the downgrade in Requiem was quite an insult to such a well woven tale. Simply for that reason I will boycott the game.

A complaint about OWOD was the Gehenna legend. Gehenna hangs over the heads of only characters who worry about Gehenna, much like the prophecies in Revelations hang over the heads of those in the Christian religion, but not anyone else, really. So Gehenna does not bother many of my characters. I don't tend to play that sort.

Depends on the focus of the story. There is no need to allow Gehenna to be overwhelming if it does not improve the story.

[serial_experiments]

I loved the Brujah tale White Wolf's authors wrote. It was so original and stimulating. I thought the downgrade in Requiem was quite an insult to such a well woven tale. Simply for that reason I will boycott the game.

Just because of the Brujah -> Bruja thing?
a) One Clan Men seriously need to explore new venues. Particularly those obsessed with the Malkavians, the Tremere and the Tzimisce.
b) Being stuck with a single story is really boring to boot. I love many of the old Masquerade stories, but I also appreciate the new stories, no matter how different.

The original Brujah were designed with the Thug/Punk stereotype in mind, and that bareboned concept was retained for the Bruja Bloodline. Anything more complicated than that would've been totally overdone.

If you ask me, I like the Brujah as they were presented in Dark Ages a LOT more. Heck... They would probably made an awesome Daeva Bloodline in Requiem.

could be any number of problems... it was a Cam LARP if you're used to the way they run things it could be standard if you're not used to the way the Cam runs things you might not have as much fun...

or it could have been that you were playing a ghoul... I've played a ghoul in an oWoD game and it wasn't anywhere near as exciting as getting an even average meat and potatoes kindred character...

might have just been an off night for the other players or ST...

All of them very, VERY possible, probabilistically speaking. Particularly the Ghoul thing... You're just the lowest of the ladder, bound to be ignored by the others.
Now, a game composed entirely of ghouls is a different matter. Particularly renegade Ghouls!

[Tuesday]

I was, in life, from the time I was a small child, raised to be familiar with magic and comfortable with darkness,

WHOOP WHOOP WHOOP
Danger! Danger! Uberpretentious Gother-than-thou wiccan-because-it's-an-excuse-to-be-spoooooooky OMG I KNOW THE REAL SEKRITS OF MAJICCCKQQQKQKX alarm!

When you grow up, and learn to tell the difference between FANTASY and REALITY, I may take your opinions on both more seriously.

That being said, Requiem's a toolkit system. It is nothing more and nothing less than what you bring to the game, and the quality of the stories and characters reflects nothing more, or less, than the quality of the players.

[Aleksanteri]

So you're saying the toolkit's flavor has no impact on the game you're playing? Obviously very good players can create a work of dramatic art out of the world's crappiest system and setting. If what you say is true, then why would anyone bother buying game books if they're bringing all the important parts with them? It isn't a lack of creativity, it is a lack of a coordinated design, mathematics, and research teams at your disposal.

And please, let's not get the long-standing traditions of ritual magic and pagan religion confused with any one person's hangups about internet vampires, white-collar goat-killers, and uber-lame elitist "witches and warlocks". We've all probably met such people, but they have little to do with one individual's interest and passion in the study of the occult, unless said interest is in making fun of other people who are also interested in it.

[Dolston]

Serial,

I didn't say those things you quoted.

[Luxifer]

I can agree and disagree with that statement... looking at it from a vampire standpoint if you take only the main rules Vampire Requiem vs Masquerade IS alot darker... it's only after you get into the 50+ bloodlines that you start to loose a bit of the horror in favor of the bigger and better powers problem that Masquerade had makes it a little more comic bookish IMO...

from a mortal standpoint the nWoD is amazingly darker... that I can totally agree with...

Logan

I agree that the many lotsa bloodlines does water it down. Fortunately as an ST I'm able to make blanket statements about which bloodlines I want to take from the books and which ones I don't. The issue is in the Camarilla where they pretty much have to keep all of them as an open option.

My general rule of thumb is, if they have a unique discipline I either change it to a common, or allow it only if I really think it emulates the nature of what it is to be a vampire.

[Dolston]

So you're saying the toolkit's flavor has no impact on the game you're playing? 

I would say that, yes. The quality of the STs and Players is infinitely more important than the tools.

Obviously very good players can create a work of dramatic art out of the world's crappiest system and setting.  If what you say is true, then why would anyone bother buying game books if they're bringing all the important parts with them?

Because the books provide a common ground that even people who do not know me can pick up and reference. It is a hook to hang the story on.

It isn't a lack of creativity, it is a lack of a coordinated design, mathematics, and research teams at your disposal.

No. I can do the research, co-ordinate the design and come up with the math myself. Hell, I'd trust John's math over everyone's on this board or who works for White Wolf. There is precisely one game developer whose math I would truct over John's and he has a PhD in Combinatory Mathematics.

What the books provide is that easily accesible and readily available common ground that makes gaming much, much easier.

[zenten]

No. I can do the research, co-ordinate the design and come up with the math myself. Hell, I'd trust John's math over everyone's on this board or who works for White Wolf. There is precisely one game developer whose math I would truct over John's and he has a PhD in Combinatory Mathematics.

I'd trust Rebecca Borgstrom's math over John's as well, but she has a PhD in Computer Science and doesn't do larp stuff.

[Aleksanteri]

I would say that, yes. The quality of the STs and Players is infinitely more important than the tools.

Because the books provide a common ground that even people who do not know me can pick up and reference. It is a hook to hang the story on.

What the books provide is that easily accesible and readily available common ground that makes gaming much, much easier.

I agree that the player/ST quality is infinitely more important; moreover, with regards to the LARP in question, it is most likely their own failings and not the fault of Requiem if someone doesn't really get into it.

Despite that, I feel that you're contradicting yourself. You can't claim that the common ground (Requiem)'s style has no impact and then point to the common ground as a unifying feature for outside gamers you aren't familiar with. If it can be used in this way to assist in a blind-date style LARP, then obviously it has a tremendous impact, because as awesome and unique a ST/player as you might be, I don't know that until at least five minutes into the game.

Even if we're only talking about the bare-bones dice rolling rules (which is exactly what I wasn't talking about, but meh), these two have an impact on my creative impression of the game and how it works in my mind's eye.

Thus, the fact that when you attack in nwod, your opponents don't actually roll out defenses against it, just subtract from your dice pool a semi-static number, rubs me the wrong way; I feel it takes away a bit of dramatic tension and participation from combat. Has nothing to do with the setting, though.

[Kuroukaze]

Hehehe, I feel the exact oposite about Defense, as I think it more replicates actual fighting conditions; most people who know how to dodge do the best they can at all times to keep out of harms way.It really is more like a static value.

[Aleksanteri]

Hehehe, I feel the exact oposite about Defense, as I think it more replicates actual fighting conditions; most people who know how to dodge do the best they can at all times to keep out of harms way.It really is more like a static value.

Well, I wasn't necessarily saying participatory dodge pools were more realistic, it's true, good fighters know to never stop moving. However, I feel it is at the same time too simplistic to be more realistic. Where's the terrain considerations? What if you were off-balance, or your weight was pushed in another direction because of what you were just doing? Also, there's little (non-supernatural) space in nwod for expertise in evasion (unless there's some merit for it I don't know about), besides increasing your attributes.

[Kuroukaze]

Situational die penalties (which I apply aaaaaall the time) and, while there isn't a Merit to use the higher of your wits or dex, there are merits to help you defend yourself, such as the Brawling and Weaponry Dodge.

I'm sure Merits could be made that directly help Defense... maybe, as you suggested, one called Evasion athat just streight up raises your Defense by 1,2,3,x points.