[Lord Uv Da Night]

My cousin is the storyteller in my game and he came up with a winning idea. You know how a player takes a vampire character and he is confronted with an adversary that he must fight, but when the fight ensues, you can tell he doesn't know when enough is enough? The player thinks just because he is full of vitae and his health was full at the start of the combat, that he cannot be killed. Check this out.
First, instead of writing and erasing on a good character sheet for amount of Vitae, go to a local game and hobby shop and buy a pack of counters for each player. They are penny-sized partially flattened marbles(preferably red ones)
Next, at the start of a game session, the Storyteller will secretly roll a d10 for each player; this is the player's starting Vitae that game
The Storyteller then puts a number of counters in seperate containers for each player. An Altoid Mints container works well, so the players can't feel the number of counters are in it.
Then, the ST gives each player his respective can of blood with the stipulation that they cannot cannot cannot look to see how much blood they have. They can shake the container to estimate whether they are full of vitae or if they are very hungry.
Anytime during the course of play a player decides to spend a vitae, the Storyteller takes the container and subtracts the spent vitae from it.
In other words, vampires don't walk around with a Vitae Gauge on their ass displaying how full or empty they are.
If a player shakes a container and it sounds like only a few are bouncing around in there, they will be a little more conservative during combat, maybe even knowing that sometimes a hungry vampire should just get the hell out of there before the player commits character suicide.

[Libra]

Your cousin is a genius, and for the win. Tell him that I approve.

[Vampir]

That is one awesome idea...

[Fabio Sooner]

One more praise for this idea. I think I'll even do it with Prince of the City tokens in the future (I've already bought small containers for them anyway).

[InfernalGoose]

That is pure and utter brilliance!

[serial_experiments]

GREAT idea!! It turns Vitae into a tangible thing, something they can estimate and conserve appropriately. It makes it real, in the sense that they cannot think "Oh shit, I've got 4 vitae left, I better feed!", they can just wonder "That sounds like... Not too much Vitae. I better run!", while the ST does know if they need to check for Frenzy.

[pascale]

Absolutely brilliant, and first thing I'm implementing on my next game session. Thanks so much for sharing this!

[serial_experiments]

Not only that, but it can also help in all other superntural games.

[krowe]

I'll add to the chorus... brilliant. I have toyed with the idea of withholding such metagame information from my players but this does so while returning a very real sensation. I need to get this set up before Saturday...

[Lord Uv Da Night]

I'm glad my cousin's idea can be of help to you. To anyone that is thinking about playtesting the idea in their next game, reply back and let me know how it worked out. I know I enjoyed experiencing the suspense when my cousin dropped this on us. We have a player that thinks he is a vampire superhero and I'm hoping that a few games played with this rule will humble him a little!

[m8trxspydr]

Except for buying all those red marble dealys and the boxes of Altoid cases, I think it's pretty cool idea.

I'm not so sure that my players would like the control I'm placing over them and I'm not too sure I want to hear a cacophony of rattling during game which would frustrate the hell out of me. Also, I'm not sure it's fair that the character have to guess their vitae rating when NPC wouldn't (and no, I'm not buying a dozen altoid boxes for the NPC).

Of course I'm making a little light of this post but all in all, it is a great source to use against fool hard power gaming players. However, a swift kick in the jimmies (I kid) or an ass kicking behind the wood shed could do that as well. Okay, for the player, maybe not so much for the character.

[agasha kumiko]

Awesome, and the kicker is that it works for ALL the games. Though it may be a harder sell concerning Mages, given they do have a "mana counter" in their backback given the actual literature written so far....

[Fabio Sooner]

Not only that, but it can also help in all other superntural games.

Yup. I've even thought about using it to track Willpower. It's not like we regular people know exactly how much mental strength we can muster right now, too.
IIRC, a mortal with few to zero willpower points available feel a little bit lethargic, isn't it? So, when one player shakes the container and notices it's almost empty, he/she has a clue on how mentally tired/stressed his/her character is feeling at the moment, and can roleplay accordingly.

[Annael]

Except for buying all those red marble dealys and the boxes of Altoid cases, I think it's pretty cool idea.

I'm not so sure that my players would like the control I'm placing over them and I'm not too sure I want to hear a cacophony of rattling during game which would frustrate the hell out of me. Also, I'm not sure it's fair that the character have to guess their vitae rating when NPC wouldn't (and no, I'm not buying a dozen altoid boxes for the NPC).

Of course I'm making a little light of this post but all in all, it is a great source to use against fool hard power gaming players. However, a swift kick in the jimmies (I kid) or an ass kicking behind the wood shed could do that as well. Okay, for the player, maybe not so much for the character.

Well, you could use pennies instead of actually buying counters. Or dice! Not that any of you have extra dice lying around, I'm sure. For a less noisy approach, maybe an opaque plastic cup instead of a tin, and some, I dunno, vitamins or something.

I dunno, Fabio, I tend to be of the opinion that people can make a decent estimate of our willpower, if we think about it a bit. But I will say that if your players are in the habit of spending through their Willpower enough for it to be a common question, then maybe there should be some kind of consequences from draining their psychic stamina so often. It doesn't tend to go well for people in real life when they regularly put themselves under so much pressure, after all.

[Fabio Sooner]

Also, I'm not sure it's fair that the character have to guess their vitae rating when NPC wouldn't

I don't know if it's a question of what's fair or not, but of roleplaying. Fact is, everything the ST knows about the NPC is "unfair".

I don't even care about this idea in an anti-powergamer sense, since my players don't tend to abuse their characters in that way. What's cool is that the containers and counters simulate something that the sheet can't: the character in question doesn't really quantify the amount of Vitae, Willpower or whatever he has, he just feels an estimation in his body/mind/senses. A mortal with 1 or 2 WP left is mentally tired. A neonate vampire with, say, anything from 8 to 10 blood points feels satiated. But they don't quantify it. They feel tired. They feel hungry. They feel satiated. And the fixed number tracked in the sheet kind of spoils the sensation. That's the main reason for using the containers in the end: make the players feel that by the rattling sound (since they aren't really vampires, or aren't really their characters, and can't feel these directly).

I dunno, Fabio, I tend to be of the opinion that people can make a decent estimate of our willpower, if we think about it a bit.

But can't vampires also estimate how many blood they have available from how hungry or satiated they feel? I guess the difference is exact quantity vs. feeling. General estimates can be easily made (zero, few, average, much) no matter the creature involved, I'd imagine. Per example Mages should know if they have much or few "magic energy" (Mana) to invest in a spell, just not how many, exactly (they probably don't even recognize this as something that quantifiable).

But I will say that if your players are in the habit of spending through their Willpower enough for it to be a common question, then maybe there should be some kind of consequences from draining their psychic stamina so often. It doesn't tend to go well for people in real life when they regularly put themselves under so much pressure, after all.

That's pretty much part of the idea.

[Annael]

But can't vampires also estimate how many blood they have available from how hungry or satiated they feel? I guess the difference is exact quantity vs. feeling. General estimates can be easily made (zero, few, average, much) no matter the creature involved, I'd imagine. Per example Mages should know if they have much or few "magic energy" (Mana) to invest in a spell, just not how many, exactly (they probably don't even recognize this as something that quantifiable).

Mmm, you have a point. But yeah, I like it for the same reason. It's tactile, a solid sensory impression you can hold in your hands rather than abstract marks on a character sheet.

Mages and mana is different, since if I recall, they actually have a system for measuring it. Trust mages and their obsessive need to categorize.

[WWWill]

I love it. Love it.

Cheers,
Will

[Libra]

Damn.

Now you've got an endorsement from WWWill.

Tell your cousin your idea got heard as far as Atlanta, right to the Wolf's Den itself.

If that doesn't put steam in his strides, nothing will.