[Panda-moan-ium]

I happen to like the Hollow Ones, found this & thought I'd share:

Hollow Ones Paradigm
by Malcus Dorroga

Note to Readers:While I have seen many variations on the Hollow Ones' paradigm, most fail to explain the overall worldview of the Hollow Ones themselves. Despite the fact that many are rather young and are apt to have VERY materialistic and selfish ideas, the very fact that they have Awakened avatars indicates having some kind of overall worldview, some idea about what existence is. From what I have read, especially The Book of Shadows, the Hollow Ones are linked by a very existential worldview. My hope with the following is to reconcile this philosophy with the Hollow One's Gothic lifestyle.

The Paradigm - Nothingness: This world is a great Void. There is no Way of things, no ultimate uniting Song, just a huge Void. There is no meaning in this Void, no higher purpose to Being, just a Void. Things exist, and the ants scurry around every day trying to justify it all, but there is no real reason why we do it.

Magick - Desire: Those with the proper disposition can project their desires into the Void and impose their own meaning on reality for a short time. This is where the fun begins!
THE SPHERES

Correspondence - Unspace: Isn't is nice how everything has it's place? Space is simply a way for the ants to simplify the Void, a trick of denial. Find the Unspace, the single infinity where the Void exists, and then learn how to skip rush hour!

Entropy - Decay:At some point, everything just goes to pot. It means nothing; it's simply that the Void cannot hold everything, and so stuff gets wrecked to make room for new toys. Decay hits everything, including the ants' nice prepakaged beliefs, which is why they don't like it.

Forces - Power:This is the stuff that keeps the Void running properly. Divert a bit of it and watch everyone scream!

Life - Being:This seems to screw everyone up; just because we exist, there is some sort of meaning to it all? Get real, ants! Watch me play with your Being, then tell me that it's so special! I mean, it's cool to be, but to be does not mean that you be something.

Matter - Existence:Stuff exists, plain and simple. Why? Who knows and, frankly, WHO CARES! Just play with existence and see what kind of pretty toys you can make.

Mind - Pattern:Thoughts impose pattern on the Void, trying to make sense of the utterly senseless. Play with the ants' thoughts, screw up their pretty patterns, and watch 'em go nuts.

Prime - Essence:Think of it as Universal Super Glue... hey, something's gotta hold all this crap together! It keeps Existence from falling apart too quickly, keeps the Power running, and keeps the ants breathing.

Spirit - Reflections:There is a place where the truth about the Void is revealed, and something lives there! Spirits reflect the light and dark of the reality the ants are desperately trying to create, and show us what can happen when you deny the truth of the Void for too long.

Time - Measure:Just another cutsey and creation to make Being easier. By measuring the length between events, the ants justify ideas like elders, history, and importance. Time is just another measurement, and the hands of my watch turn back just as easily as the ruler can be shifted.

Arete - Acceptance:The more one accepts the meaningless of the Void, the more one can screw with it. If you can accept the Nothingness in Being, in Existence, and in yourself, you grow in presence and, in a weird way, become more real. Why this happens is unknown, but it may be that, as you accept your Nothingness, you lift the veil of ignorance and connect with the Void more directly. Who knows; just accept futility and have fun!

Quintessence - Support:Those accept the Void usually receive support from it in some way, usually in the form of fuel for your Desires. Cool stuff; don't pass it up!

Paradox - Revenge:Just like you and I don't like other people's ideas imposed on us, the Void doesn't like it when you impose too much meaning on it. When you do that, and ESPECIALLY when you're blatant about it, the Void strikes back and takes revenge.

Mage-Related Backgrounds

Arcane - Nonexistence:Sometimes you accept your Nothingness so much that you become harder to perceive. Let's face it, if you mean nothing and KNOW it, then the ants are going to have a hard time finding a way to justify your existence.

Avatar - Presence:There is a part of you that is intimiately connected with the Void and helps you out. It is this Presence that allowed you to perceive the truth, and it is this Presence that will see you to the final truth.

Chantry - Hideout:When the ants just get on your nerves, you need to find a place where everyone knows your name.....

Destiny - Ego:We all know this guy, usually the dumb jock or Little-Miss-My- Shyte-Don't-Stink. They have the biggest egos in the world, and nothing can seem to bring it down. Odd thing is that sometimes that ego is justified, and odd stuff starts to happen.......

Dream - Guidance:Once in a while, your Presence needs to tell you something important, so it talks to you when it has your full attention.

Node - Battery:Essence tends to collect in nifty little batteries that you can pick up and pop into your Desires. Of course, you aren't the only one that likes these little batteries, so watch your back.

Malcus Dorroga / malcus@xtdl.com

[sandchigger]

Man, I'd almost forgotten those old Anders-style paradigm pages.

[Mav]

my issue is that the hollow ones are not a tradition and do not really share anything in common other than not being part of other clubs.

I always say them as a chance for a group to create a shared Paradigm between them, one that most likely would borrow snippets from here there and everywhere.

[sandchigger]

The Hollow Ones share as much of a Paradigm as the Sons of Ether do, Mav.

[Mav]

sandchigger, on 19 March 2010 - 04:17 AM, said:

The Hollow Ones share as much of a Paradigm as the Sons of Ether do, Mav.

While I can't speak of the SoE,

Hollow ones book page 47 said:

The Hollow One paradigm is less concrete belief system than an observable set of tendencies.

well a Paradigm is a belief system, so while they share a type of paradigm generally (in a much wider sense than say the CC) where do you draw the line?

[Wulfborn]

I have to say the Paradigm that Panda-moan-ium threw up seems to be a fairly accurate representation of the outlook most who follow the Hollow Ones Tradition follow, even if they themselves claim to follow no tradition. While i can't say for sure just because i don't know what is going on in your head, Mav it seems to me like you are putting Paradigm with Tradition or Convention which isn't the case, assorted Crafts have their own shared Paradigms, you don't have to be a Tradition to have your own shared paradigm among a group of people no matter how large.

[Mav]

Wulfborn, on 19 March 2010 - 05:04 PM, said:

I have to say the Paradigm that Panda-moan-ium threw up seems to be a fairly accurate representation of the outlook most who follow the Hollow Ones Tradition follow, even if they themselves claim to follow no tradition. While i can't say for sure just because i don't know what is going on in your head, Mav it seems to me like you are putting Paradigm with Tradition or Convention which isn't the case, assorted Crafts have their own shared Paradigms, you don't have to be a Tradition to have your own shared paradigm among a group of people no matter how large.

I put Traditions together as the thing that binds them together is Paradigm, where as the Hollow ones may tend to have the same type of Paradigm but they have a huge amount of scope, I would also expect groups of hollow ones (where they are discovering things together) to have a shared paradigm as you have no grand Tradition telling you what anything really is or how the world works.

[Wulfborn]

That's where we differ i suppose. There is no grand Paradigm, Mage makes a point of stating this in regards to the Traditions or Conventions, what binds them together in my opinion is their shared opinion and beliefs in everything not just how magic works. To me lumping a Tradition by Paradigm encourages stereotypes, i played a Son of Ether who had a very technocratic Paradigm and viewpoint, Progenitor in fact, the only reason he was with the Sons of Ether was that some of their beliefs and their knowledge about chemical make up and the like, as well as their access to devices were what drew him to them. He didn't share their beliefs at all.

The Hollow Ones are a tradition as far as they are concerned, they aren't where the other Traditions are concerned, but then looking at it, all the other traditions form up the Old Boys Club, they don't couldn't be recognized if they tried, and they haven't. After all, if they don't follow the beliefs of any other tradition with beliefs why would they form a tradition to force their beliefs on each other? Granted in the Final Nights when the 10th chair appears they are very adamant that it is for them, where as the Old Boys believe it is for the one who is supposed to lead the other Traditions.

[sandchigger]

The only requirement to be a member of the Celestial Chorus is a belief that magic comes from some external source that gives it to you when you ask properly. That's the core of all their many and varied paradigms.

[Mav]

sandchigger, on 24 March 2010 - 12:45 AM, said:

The only requirement to be a member of the Celestial Chorus is a belief that magic comes from some external source that gives it to you when you ask properly. That's the core of all their many and varied paradigms.

But even that is a tighter fit than the Hollow ones "tend to be materialistic" (cant remember the quote sorry) link.

IMHO it's the teaching aspect that sets them apart, as the other traditions teach members the way things are it draws them together as a tradition, as the hollow ones are left alone to work it out it spawns diversity, which in itself is no bad thing. (much like how a mixed Cabal has an affect on the members)

[Wulfborn]

Actually the Hollow Ones can have tighter bonds that keep them together than other Traditions. Whereas the traditions might group together based on beliefs or someone to share knowledge with the Hollow Ones group together with people who have had similar life experiences and have similar outlooks on everything, not just magic. They aren't necessarily left to work it out on their own, If Joe McOrphan was struggling to understand things and had no teacher the one group the quickest to take him in and teach him about things would be Julie McGoth Hollow One, especially if their life view or experiences were something they were familiar with. If the Hollow Ones 'tend to be materialistic' it's because they are more based in reality than the other traditions.

Atleast to their viewpoint, after all as far as the hollow ones are concerned, the Akashic Brotherhood are the monks and Buddhists who see the world as perfect or spiritual when it isn't. Celestial Chorus: Overbearing religious freaks who try to force religion on those who join their club. The cultists of ecstasy? Druggies, Dreamspeakers: Spiritual yahoos who preach about saving the world but do little to actually do it. Euthanatos; Creepy death obsessed mages and assassins at best, serial killers at worst. Order of Hermes: Assholes, of all of them the OoH treat them the worst i think. Sons of Ether: Mad scientists who take themselves way too seriously. Verbena: Wiccans, but the sort that are made fun of by everyone because they take offense at imagined slights towards their beliefs. Virtual Adepts; Nerds constantly jacked into their computers.

Going back to Joe McOrphan and Julie McGoth above, Julie tells Joe her viewpoint about the different traditions and what they stand for, Joe realizes he doesn't have strong religious views, and isn't that into science or spending every waking moment jacked into the internet. Sure he might have used drugs for recreation but the CoE just sound too much for him, the OoH sound like an old boys club so where can he go to learn things? Julie McGoth, sure he might find her choice of attire funny and her clubs annoying however she was the only one who has expressed an interest in teaching him so he doesn't get himself killed or worse.

When all is said and done the reason that the Traditions are having a somewhat harder time finding new mages and the reason hollow ones are growing in number is the exact belief that Mav has as to what makes a tradition is it's Paradigm and beliefs. The modern age youth for the most part don't want anything to do with the old structure that the majority of Traditions have it just doesn't appeal to them so they join the Hollow Ones. Do they have a structured Hierarchy? No. Do they have a shared belief that is crammed down peoples throats? No however most do tend to have a similar belief about the reality of the world. Do they have strong ties that keep their small groups as tight as families? Yes.Are they technically a tradition? No but they are the largest 'Craft' in existence.

[Mav]

While some of what you said about traditions there is just plain wrong - the not teaching this was in the Hollow one Tradition book (I know they keep changing with every new book) but I always looked at it as more of a,

We will leave you to figure it out, but if you ask then why not show others how we do it?

I think that the only tradition that would grow bar the Hollow ones is the CC - if the real world shows us anything it is that Religion thrives in places where just living is a daily struggle.

But it is the bonds within the coterie's that helps most think, in the WoD this is somewhere you belong that would feel like home.

That and the face the average MiB may actually tolerate you while there are other deviants to sort first.

Actually this thread is making me want to run my first Mage game, with the PC's as Hollow ones.

[sandchigger]

The Hollow Ones believe that there is no underlying truth and that is where they gain their power. They're Hollow you see. Nothing there except what's on the outside. It's kinda the opposite of the Akashic paradigm where everything that we consider real is just an illusion.